Unlocking the Limitless Growth Inside Your Business: A discussion with Michael Delon on the Paperback Expert Podcast

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Transcript:

[Music]

and welcome to another episode of

experts speak I am Michael Delon today

I'm talking with Danny Nathan and well

Danny thank you so much for taking some

time and being with me this morning

thank you for having me I'm excited for

our chat well you're are welcome it's

it's gonna be a it's gonna be a fun chat

Danny does something that's out of this

world um per se you know I I love that

because well his company's called Apollo

21 which and it's got this whole Space

theme it's really really fun you got to

go to the website um and check it out

Apollo 2.io just check that out but

that's only after you listen to this

this amazing interview so what Danny and

his team does is they they' brought

together a bunch of just really smart

people to to help business owners

entrepreneurs entrepreneurs and and tech

companies unlock the Limitless growth

potential inside of your own business

and I love that phrase I I think I stole

it from his website but I I think it's

really cool because so many times we've

limited our growth or we've got a

project we don't know how to get off the

ground that's where Danny and his team

come in so let me let me just start this

whole thing as we dive deep Danny say

how in the world Danny did you get doing

what you are doing

today it has been a uh a long and sort

of roller coaster is path I uh I started

my career in the world of advertising

and realized very quickly that I didn't

enjoy doing that and so I um made it a

personal goal to get out of the world of

advertising and into something that was

more technology driven and uh frankly

just more aligned to the way that I

think the world works today and so I

found myself working in an innovation

consultancy here in New York for about

five years that was my introduction into

the world of innovation and helping

companies and businesses think about how

to bring value to their consumers um

before screaming at them to buy

something for example um and then from

there I migrated into the world of

startups and Entrepreneurship I've

launched a number of companies of my own

I've served as head of product and

design for a number of different

technology driven startups and then uh

my previous role at my last company was

as head of product for a video startup

in LA and during the last year or so of

my tenure there I was asked to help out

some of the other portfolio companies

that our investor had with um their

technology needs and so that was kind of

the beginning of specifically doing the

work that we do at Apollo 21 I started

doing it for a few other organizations

that were friendlies and then finally

somebody tapped me on the shoulder and

said hey you seem to enjoy this why

don't you go take a run at it and so uh

we launched Apollo 21 in April of 2021

and we've been doing that since awesome

I love that so um un unpack so so people

if they're like me they're sitting there

going okay I kind of get this but I'm

still kind of a little fuzzy let's bring

it down to the bottom shelf and say okay

who do you really um love working with

and and what are those three segments

that that just Define um what you all do

yeah so uh we work primarily with mid to

Enterprise size corporations are very

rough not not hard and fast Benchmark is

companies doing about $10 million in

Revenue a year who are looking for

opportunities to scale either through

new product development new Venture

building or who are looking to establish

Venture building operations of their own

so they're looking to uh innovate

internally creating like an internal

Venture Studio or innovation lab and so

the work that we do generally falls into

three categories it is helping companies

build and launch new products that align

to their existing portfolio helping

companies establish those Innovation and

Venture building operations internally

or helping companies solve operational

challenges by Building Technology to

accomplish something specific that is a

blocker or a problem within their

organization okay excellent and and

that's great thank you um I I I heard

the story years ago and I and I think

this kind of relates as uh it was Apple

was the company right and somebody of

course it was somebody walked into the

lunchroom said hey I need you know 10

Engineers to come help me on this new

project that nobody knows about that's

going to probably fail but blah blah

blah right and and like 10 people raised

their hand and they said okay come and

that was the that was the group that

that built like the iPhone right yeah it

was it was an internal Innovation thing

that's kind of what you do with

companies who may not have this the

stuff that apple or that may have been

you I don't know I wish I could tell you

that was me I'm afraid it wasn't though

but yes that's a that's a really great

example and Alignment to the type of

work that we do and the type of

operations that we are helping companies

establish because what we find is that

every company believes in Innovation

wants to talk about Innovation wants to

share how they're being Innovative but a

lot of that is sort of masked behind

Innovation theater uh you know we talk

about the illusion of innovation um you

know the going through the motions of

doing things that sound at face value

like they are Innovative but when push

comes to shove aren't really changing

the culture and the trajectory of the

organization and so we come in and help

um evaluate rearticulate or establish

from the ground up those types of

operations in a way that um our process

has proven works and

creates an established ongoing practice

that companies can then carry forward

yeah and that's really cool and the

other thing I really liked about about

Apollo 21 and what you guys are doing is

is you you said on your website that you

start from the very beginning in a sense

to work yourself out of a job because

you expect your companies unpack that

because I thought that was a really

intriguing thought yeah that's something

that I think is uh relatively unique to

us um we we start every project with the

expectation that our Cent will outgrow

us and if we have done our jobs well

then that is exactly the eventuality

that we're aiming for and what we have

found is that um you know often we'll be

brought in to start by helping a company

solve a very specific discrete need and

what we find as often as not is that in

the uh solution process for whatever

problem they've articulated we uncover a

number of other things that we could do

and so often what will happen is either

the solution to that initial problem

will grow in scope and scale or we'll

start with something small and then

continue layering things on and what we

find is that in success if we have

helped a company create a new product

launch a new Venture establish their own

Venture building operations at some

point they're going to look at us and

say you know what this has been great

but we need to internalize these

operations and to be frank we fought

against that a little bit early on and

you know as a company ourselves and of

course a company that is trying to uh

you know keep money flowing through the

coffers um you know we started off by

trying to grab on to and hold on to as

much of that business as possible and

what we eventually realized is that it's

a terrible way to do business because

eventually you end up butting heads with

your own clients and your own uh you

know people that you've built strong

relationships with because you're trying

to hold on to their business at the same

time that they're trying to expand their

business uh and make it their own and so

so I finally just threw at my hands and

said you know what this isn't the right

way to do this we should start every

project with the expectation that if we

do our jobs well that that client will

fly the nest if you will and uh begin to

operate without our help and so we

almost use that as a benchmark now you

know if we can get a client to a point

where they no longer need us then we

feel like we've done a really good job

yeah that's awesome it's it's

interesting because when you go to

Apollo 2.io their website it's is it's a

space theme right people in in space

outfits you get to Rocket and everything

and it just occurred to me as you were

talking about that this whole concept is

it's it's almost like you guys are

helping that company you're helping NASA

build the rocket to launch and success

is when the rocket actually launches and

now what they're able to do is go into a

new orbit and do Great and Mighty things

because of what you've brought to the

table is that a fair analogy yes I I

wish I could tell you that we were

building rockets for NASA but beyond

that I think that spot on okay yeah yeah

but whether it's rockets for AA or or

apps for Bank of America or um VR things

that are coming or a a technology

platform maybe for a manufacturing

company I mean it really doesn't matter

the industry as much as the thought

process and and how you go about doing

things can can you unpack that is that

right yeah that's absolutely right um we

are industry agnostic we are vertical

agnostic and really what we're focused

on is helping companies I do what I've

described either solve a core

operational problem and often we will do

that by first Consulting with the

company really um wrapping our heads

around what their company does how their

business operations work and then where

the pain points are in those operations

and a lot of what we do is Building

Technology to solve those specific pain

points so uh we've worked across

Financial Services across remote

guarding and security we've done work in

the western Sports space and a lot of

that is underpinned by um actually a

technology stack that we built and own

called mission control which allows us

to very quickly yes carrying the space

them forward exactly um but I like in

Mission Control to like a box of Legos

it's a bunch of pieces of functionality

that we can dump on the floor and then

Cobble together into whatever we want it

to be to solve that problem for that

company and then on the other side of it

uh as I said is helping companies launch

new products and launch new Ventures and

so in doing that um it really gives us

an opportunity to learn about their

business and to understand how we can

have an impact so that we can help them

grow scale change establish Innovation

practices Etc yeah and I I think the

other thing I really like about the

model that you've got is is you're

you're you're equipping that

organization and their people to grow

themselves and and to create this little

little Skunk Works as if you will that

that will endure is that how it kind of

works yeah when we talk about uh

creating Venture building operations

internally that's really exactly what

we're talking about is helping companies

understand how to successfully create

that little Skunk Works team or really

it you know it can start with a Skunk

Works team but a lot of it comes down to

helping companies understand what the

shift in culture and mindset needs to be

so that the Skunk Works become comes the

organization and so what starts with a

small team of you know 5 to 10 people

that are building the next iPhone or the

next NASA rocket whatever it might be um

we think that there's an opportunity for

that team to really end up creating and

sharing a pervasive mentality throughout

the organization that leads to a

cultural shift enabling Innovation

exploration and ultimately opportunities

for failure without repercussion because

that's kind of where the magic happens

it well it really does and and we we'll

probably never know how many failures

the iPhone had before it actually

succeeded right it's kind of like the V8

engine how many times that fail um but

and and I think that's why I love the

the phraseology you use is is unlocking

the

Limitless growth and potential inside

your because it is once you have this

mindset and you have a culture of

innovation where is anything is possible

ex anything possible exactly and if as

fast as you know the world is moving

with technology and all this other stuff

you you really do need to be an

innovator you know we our our companies

we've been around 13 years right we've

rein ourselves dozens of times just

looking at as as who was it Wayne gresky

don't look where the puck is look where

it's going right that's Innovation and

that's really what you are helping

companies organizations do is not just

develop that that next thing but create

a mindset and a culture around well okay

what about the thing that's four things

down that we don't even know about yet

right Fair yeah yes absolutely fair and

a lot of it also comes down to really

operationalizing that mindset you know

it's one thing to say to a company like

you need to change your culture you need

an Innovative mindset but it's another

thing to help companies understand

exactly how to make that tangible and

realistic and so for example we talk a

lot with companies about what metrics

are leading their efforts and how to

think about the metrics that are

demonstrative of that innovation culture

so that the actions that we are

encouraging them to take and helping

them to establish internally become

grounded in the business operations in

addition to just the um Green Field or

blue sky opportunistic view yeah yeah

and and that's that's so important

especially I assume when you're getting

into Innovation is having somebody with

an outside perspective an outside voice

who's seen a lot of things you've helped

innovate and create lots of things over

your time but you also have this team

that can come in and um I assume not

every client needs like all three

aspects because you can help them with

any three it's just that sweet spot

right so you can help them regardless of

where they're they're at right exactly

and that's where you know that's where

some of the moneyness around what we do

comes in as well because as I said some

of what we do is operationally focused

and Building Technology to help folks

solve those challenges some of it is

focused on creating new products but

within that kind of existing sphere of

what a company does today and then of

course there's the the more Innovative

Blue Sky Venture building side of things

which is huh if we took all of the um

barriers out of the way what might

happen and that's where things get

really exciting as well oh absolutely um

wow we could we could go down lots of

rabbit Trails right there I'll just I'll

just hold back because it'd be way too

much fun um talk real quick as as we

start Landing our our shuttle let's call

it that right um Talk about what's going

on in the the mind maybe the heart of a

of a company an organization a team

before they reach out to you okay so

they've got something what's going on so

that somebody listening can go that's me

what what happens what's going on before

they reach out to you uh often what we

hear is that the metrics that companies

are are using as their North Star are

starting to feel stale they're having

trouble reaching those uh the goals for

those metrics that they've put in place

Revenue might be slowing down growth

might be slowing down um things like

that that are big red flags for

companies that often what you will see

is companies will just throw more

resources at the things that they've

been doing oh uh customer growth is down

let's run more ads for example and that

can be a Band-Aid to those near-term

Solutions but the reality is that it is

just a Band-Aid and it is very much near

term and so um we talk a lot with

companies about what longevity looks

like and where they want to be in end

number of years as opposed to next

quarter for example because a lot of the

principles that guide today's

organizations are grounded in near-term

metrics and near-term success at the

expense of a long-term perspective and

and Viewpoint and so where we come in is

you know when companies are hitting that

moment of hm things are slowing down we

know we need to change something but the

things that we are trying aren't working

that's really where we see an

opportunity to go okay well maybe it's a

time to try something different let's

think about what that might look like

and how we can layer in something

different into your operations in a

manner that isn't disruptive but rather

adds fuel to the fire yeah very very

cool and the other the other aspect and

it's right on your your website as you

start your introductory video is um

helping companies understand the value

and what they're bringing to their

customer Their audience because that

really is what it's all about speaking

of that pad yeah yeah absolutely we are

massive proponents of the customer

development process and so everybody

talks about talking to their customers

but what we see is that a lot of

companies talk to their customers by

sending a survey about how their

customer support experience was or you

know hey how did you like your new shirt

whatever and the reality is that when

you're talking Innovation growth and

opportunity really what you're looking

for are what are the next pain points

that we can solve for our customers that

align to our particular business so that

we can create that symbiotic

relationship of a customer needs

something that we can provide let's

build something that adds value for them

and therefore of course in the process

creates value for us at the same time

and so instead of just jumping directly

into brainstorming for example or

running a design Sprint to find what the

next opportunity is we encourage our

customers to spend a lot of time talking

to their customers so that they

understand it begin to unpack where

those pain points are where the

emotional moments in the customer

Journey are so that they can begin to

solve those and what happens is we end

up starting very wide and just sort of

exploring where our opportunities where

is pain happening and then as we begin

to identify those points we begin to

narrow in and go oh interesting that

particular pain Point aligns to our

business how might we solve that paino

and you keep talking to customers hey

here's a four frame comic book

storyboard that we think solves the

problem that you told us about what do

you think of it and what we find is that

by the time you get through that

customer development process which let's

be clear maybe a couple of weeks it may

be a couple of months depending on kind

of you are and how in depth you want to

go there but what happens is by the time

you start building something you have

talked to customers about it and heard

their reactions to it so many times that

the risk level of what you're about to

create is incredibly low and um you know

exactly whether or not you're on the

path to creating something that they

will find Value in and therefore pay you

for and so that upfront work while it is

upfront work save so much effort in the

long run by eliminating seven features

that you didn't need to build from the

thing that you're launching for example

that it it lends itself to massive

success yeah yeah that's great and and

not only that but building something

that I really like and I really think

it's cool that my customer just doesn't

really care about exactly that's the

worst

moment yeah when you get to that moment

of hey we built a thing don't you think

it's great and everybody kind of looks

at you and goes

yeah that it is the worst feeling it

really is and and the value that you you

didn't really talk about is the value of

when you're talking with your customers

the value of the

relationship so much um that then you

don't have to sell your thing to them

it's it's a natural byproduct of value

creation and in customer retention

exactly you create an amazing

relationship with your customers who

feel like their needs are being heard

who feel like they have input into the

process of creating the solution to the

problem that you are working with them

to identify and often what we'll find is

that by going through that customer

development process by the time you

launch a thing you've got customers

lined up and waiting for it because

you've already talked to those people

and what we'll hear in that process is

oh my God call me when this is ready

send me an email I want to be the first

person to use this that is fantastic

because then you don't hit the point

that we were just describing of

launching a thing and feeling like it's

falling flat instead you've got people

beating on your door going give me that

thing I wanted I needed it solves a

problem yeah that's amazing that that is

a place everybody wants to be and I

think Danny Nathan and his team at

Apollo 21 have have kind of helped

figured out how to make this happen on a

on a more regular basis so Danny how how

do people reach out to you find out more

about you your company take that next

step where's the best place for them to

go uh best place is our website which

you've mentioned a couple of times it's

Apollo 21 number2 number

one.i uh I of course am also active on

social media I am blah blah blah among

many on just about everything and of

course Apollo 21 is also active on

social media you can find us on LinkedIn

WE Post little Snippets of videos all

the time to uh YouTube and Tik Tok and

all the other places um and if you

happen to be listening from New York I

run a monthly Founders dinner and a

monthly innovator's dinner which is just

five or six people sitting down and

getting to know one another I uh

actually attended one last night and it

was a great conversation so if you're

local please come say hi and have dinner

with us that's awesome what a great idea

face to face flesh to flesh I mean gosh

no name tags no name tags no name tags I

love it I love it great idea all right

Danny Nathan thank you um this is this

is amazing Apollo 2.io is the place to

go and learn about wther and how they

can help you understand how to how to

capture leverage and and launch the

Innovative growth that's that's uh in

your business so you can scale and and

build great teams so Danny man this has

been phenomenal for me thank you so much

for being my guest thanks for doing what

you do to help businesses thanks for

having me it's been a great chat

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