Talking Startups and Innovation on the How I Did It Podcast

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Transcript:

all right so Danny why do you think the audience should listen to you on this

episode I'm just some guy who's been trying to do this in the same way that your audience is probably trying to find

some success so the long and short of it is listen to me if you would like take

what you can from it but definitely don't take anything that I say is gospel because we're all just out here trying

the same thing that being said I've been trying for about 20 years now um I

started my career career in the world of advertising realized very quickly that I wasn't happy with that career path I

took action to find a different career path that saw me land in the world of innovation Consulting that introduced me

to the world of Entrepreneurship and startups and uh all things technology which has been sort of the Mainstay of

my career since then and after about five years in that role um the entirety

of the remainder of my career which spans I guess the subsequent 12 to 15 years

depending how you slice it um has been a mix of starting companies and serving as head of product or head of product and

design for a variety of companies so I have tried many things I have failed

many times I am successful in some measure but still looking for the big

win that I think we all run after and ultimately if I can offer any single nugget of truth that helps somebody all

the better and otherwise you're welcome to tell me that I'm an idiot and you don't have to listen to me at all yeah

um that was quite detailed that was quite detailed thank you very much for letting the audience know the reason why they should be here the reason why this

podcast was set up is that um I want people who are one professionals young

professionals business owners Founders co-founders and things like that who are

basically setting out I want them to um be able to come to this podcast and

listen to Unique Individuals like yourself on how they were able to achieve a a level of success within

their careers because um we are all just trying as as as you'd imagine so that's

the reason that's the main idea behind how I did it as a podcast good for

people who um don't know about um the

young man in front of me um his name is Daniel in me and he has over 20 he has

over two decades experience in product technology in

helping businesses or companies create products and services and launch new

Ventures um it's sometime called the your ex guy sometime called the product

person and um other people call him the cleaner which we will get to in a bit so

uh looking at his resume I have looking at his profile it made me come up with a new name for him which I which I will

dis up on him by the time he leaves for this because it's quite similar to

everything that you just said um that that your profile says you do and Danny

is the is the founder of Apollo 21 a company that helps organizations Drive growth removing the barriers to skill by

building technologies that solves compx business um and operational issues um so

what does app 21 it basically sits at inter intersection of product design

studio Avengers studio and a management consultancy so thank you so much um

Danny for stopping by on this afternoon because I because you're calling from

the east coast in the U in the US yes so I'm on the other side of the Atlantic in

London all right so your profile is quite is quite impressive I went through

bu of your podcast and all of the episodes that that that you've done lately um but

there is actually a question that actually balls through um that the audience always try try to want to have

a clear understanding of um who you are how you've been able to successfully um

help companies basically take products to the market and keep them there to be

successful as much as you can um um so um the main million dooll question um

how did you do it oh man nothing like a tough one just

right out of the gate here um I guess for me all of that boils down

to having a certain level of don't give upness and there's no question that you

know Building Products building companies helping establish new Ventures

all of the fun stuff that you've just described is is hard full stop it's hard for individuals to do it's hard for

teams to bring to life it's hard for companies to execute on Etc and so um

the best answer I can give you for how I've managed any monocom of success is just keep trying because uh eventually

after failing however many times it takes you will learn and discover what

works and what doesn't work and to me that's all just sort of part of the journey in terms of getting to where

something interesting might happen and so the more you can try the more you can fail and the more that you can recognize

that those failures are not a personal shortcoming but are rather a learning experience and a path towards growth uh

the more the more sort of fuel you can add to your personal fire to keep you going

to keep trying because it's hard all right um you what you said now

you mentioned a particular word a couple of times like about four or five times and

that word is failure yeah and from from my own experience and let me let let me

let me take let me take it back to my own personal experience that I believe um business owners um usually go

through as a startup founder you are looking for new business people who are

able to plug in into um who are able to sign up into your platform and you keep on creating marketing um

marketing content over and over over again with a hope that you get go get

lucky through the platforms and go viral all of those 200 views all of those zero

views that you get all of those lack of attention is um is somewhat considered

failure because people are looking at you from the outside like what is it doing just pack it up you are not you

are not making head root at these things but my own experience has been that the

more of those things that you do allows you to tweak stuff allows you to learn

and allows you to be able to allows you be able to learn much more on what

doesn't work and know more about things that work so that you can make better

results in the future so I want you to touch on that word you said failure failure failure failure

what why is failure a recipe for success I I'm glad you caught it um I

have sort of a personal Mantra that is failed beautifully and so the word failure is just consistently stuck in my

head um and part of the reason that I believe in Failure so much is that it is

it is inevitable uh to your point every single thing that you try as an

entrepreneur as somebody who is trying to an audience or a customer base or whatever it is is a stepstone along the

path hopefully towards success but of course that's not guaranteed but ultimately the things that don't work a

lot of people call failures and well yes uh an experiment that doesn't work an

experiment that doesn't drive traffic a new feature that doesn't resonate for your audience whatever the case it may be um is a failure to some extent but my

issue with the idea of failure and the reason that I remind myself constantly that failure is okay is because from a

young age it is ingrained in our heads that failure is a Bad Thing failure

starts off as being you know you didn't pass a test or you didn't pass a class or you didn't pass a grade or whatever

it was failure is bad and in the world that we're talking about especially in the example that you just gave failure

is just a fact of life it's part of how we learn it's part of how we move forward and so the more that we can

reframe for ourselves and grow comfortable with the idea that that failure isn't a bad thing failure is a

path towards success and a path towards learning I think the more comfortable we can become with the idea that we are

going to fail and the more comfortable with it we become the less of an impact

it has and the less um demoralizing the less it takes out of you when it does

happen and if you're running down the startup path and you know as you said you're trying all sorts of things you're

looking to grow an audience you're looking to grow a customer base yes you're going to fail but those failures

are learning points and they really ultimately become a good thing because they teach you what to try next and what

to what didn't work that time around and so ultimately it's about growing

comfortable enough in your own skin to know that you're going to have those moments and getting beyond the idea that

those moments of things that did not work while they might be failures are not a bad thing so to me it's a it's a

good thing to remind self the failure is okay yes um I I actually really agree

with you um I actually really agree with you and looking back touching on

touching on that particular word again on failure um there are several things once

you start peeling once you start peeling the onions the reason why something doesn't work there are certain things

that you start finding out the reason why what you were trying is not working

working uh for example in the last in the last 6 months

the Tik Tok the Tik to algorithm has shifted towards you just having like a

much more natural video style where you just pick up the phone you record you

post and the video Moves much more better than when you done in 2023 where

things were extremely edited super effect and things like that

and if you are going to be landing a new client um in a in your agency they would

expect you to come with the old edits the old this the old shebang when it

comes to like crazing all the um a grand de kind of kind of edit which is Al

which is also good um for the brand but might not be something that drives

traction now the question looking back from my own experience that I actually

want to learn from you from you as well is that when you fail to get what um what was working

then maybe you came late into the game and you're trying something that already changed what are the things that you can

do in terms of like Innovation how can a company be much

more Innovative it doesn't have to be in marketing it doesn't have to be in um

doesn't even have it's generally around a product centered company or a brand

how can they try to be you start today and you give your chance you give

yourself a chance to be ahead of the cve by being very Innovative um so that you don't fail

because you're trying to do something that worked yesterday if that makes sense yeah I think I'm following

um the answer that I have for that again comes back to failure companies much

like people do not like the idea of failing and failing for companies is usually measured in dollars whereas for

individuals it might be measured in personal satisfaction or you know how you feel about yourself at any given

time companies of course are are not people with feelings they're big moving things that are measured in dollars and

cents for the most part and the reason that a lot of companies struggle with

the idea of innovation is because when you are motivated by dollars and cents

your goal becomes to construct an operational environment where those

dollars and cents go as far as possible and are protected as much as possible and unfortunately the reality is that

the ideals and the things that lead to Innovation are sort of at odds with the

idea of efficient use of and protection of money or Capital because

again much like for individuals the idea of innovation for a company comes down to trying things and ultimately figuring

out what fails and figuring out what doesn't and so the biggest change that

companies can make in my mind to enable the idea of innovation within their own

walls is to become more accepting of failure to encourage their employees to

experiment to try weird things to really when it comes down to it to

try things that are not necessarily Capital efficient but rather spend a

little bit of money to learn as much as possible so that you can figure out what's going to fail and ideally what is

not and that's where your opportunity for Innovation comes it's the idea that

people teammates employees have been uh empowered to try weird things that pop

into their heads knowing that they might well fail but with the comfort of not feeling like

there will be repercussions for that failure and as soon as you know as soon as you start firing employees for trying

weird things that might not have worked for example or you know calling them in for reviews or whatever your process is

for that you're going to stimy Innovation immediately because people are going to go oh wait when I try

something weird that costs a little bit of money I get yelled at for it so I'm not going to do that anymore I'm just

going to tow the party line and so if you want Innovation get out of your own

way and let people try weird things okay so what's the weirdest thing that you've ever tried oh God

uh I'll give you a really good example um one of my earlier jobs post

advertising and really one of the jobs that shaped my perspective on all things

Innovation and weird today uh was at a small Innovation consultancy here in New

York and we got an RFP from Fujifilm the company that makes film and digital

cameras Etc that said basically we're interested in building a photo sharing website we have a million dollars in

budget to do so and we want you guys to consider you know doing the project for us respond to our RFP and bear in mind

this was in 2008 probably so it was a little

while ago um yes I'm dating myself I haven't been called young in quite a while so thank you for that

um anyway so we hopped online and took a digar around to figure out like you know

okay you're going to build a photo sharing website why how is it going to be different what what's the purpose behind it and in our research uh what we

found was that on a daily basis roughly 10,000 photos a day were uploaded from a

Fuji camera to Flicker and for those folks who are not you know as old as I

am flicker was like Instagram before Instagram was a thing but it wasn't mobile it was just the place where you

posted all your photos and so you know we gave it a a long hard think and

basically realized there was really no reason for Fuji to build a photo sharing website because there was a great one

that were already existed people were gravitating towards it it was by far the largest photo sharing platform of the

day and was growing rapidly Etc and so um to answer your question the thing

that we tried that was really weird was um we crafted a response to their RFP

that basically said uh we don't want to build you a photo sharing website Flickr

exists roughly 10,000 photos were up uploaded to Flickr from a Fuji camera

yesterday but if you would like to spend a million dollars developing a camera

that can upload photos directly to the internet or flicker or whatever we would

love to help you do that and we put that response on a website the URL for which

was www.the last thing the world needs is another photos sharing website.com

and we printed out about 200 physical photos like prints of our office and us

having fun and whatever and on the back of every single one of those photos we wrote that URL by hand and we dumped

them all in a box and we mailed them back as our response to the RFP and huge shocker we did not win that business fji

spent a million dollars they built a photo sharing website and a year later they shut it down because it couldn't compete with flicker so that was a

pretty fun weird moment that really taught me a lot about not only the view

of what it takes to be Innovative but also how big companies think about

Innovation and sort of where they deploy their dollars in pursuit of innovation

and so um yeah I don't know that was a that was a weird and fun one that we tried

out okay um because um I always like try to like

tread my questions so based on what you just said now you tried something out of

the box that didn't work out mhm what about a situation whereby you tried something

out of the if you've had it before you tried something out of the box that it didn't work out you took learnings from

that and you saw an opportunity again to innovate taking the learnings from a

failed situation to win something big if that makes sense have you had such experiences before

that is basically every startup story try something fail figure out what

failed make it different try it again and lather rinse and repeat until you

finally find something that people like now there are ways to shortcut that like the customer development process where

you can make the learnings and the points of failure much faster to achieve you know failure doesn't always have to

mean we built something and we put it in the world to determine whether or not it would resonate for people you can always

just go out and you know ask people if it will resonate for them and so I'm a huge fan of that process but yes I mean

I think that I think every startup founder has been through the process of try fail try again fail learn try maybe

succeed or succeed a little bit you know that's the other thing to bear in mind with this whole conversation about failure is that success also doesn't

mean exactly what has been ingrained in our heads since an early age you know success doesn't have to mean I developed

a unicorn company that went public and got rich in a month and whatever because it really doesn't work that way success

also happens in little tiny increments that compound one another as you figure out you know oh okay this little thing

worked and then this thing worked and then this thing worked and in much the same way that failure teaches you what not to do success teaches you what to

double down on and keep trying but again that is not always or even normally a huge win as

much as it is incremental trial and error to figure out what success looks

like all right brilliant um so in terms of in terms of success now um um you

talk so much about um vure driv driven growth and what it means to um so what

does venture driven growth means um meant to Corporation and why should they

focus their um their efforts on such so for me Venture driven growth is

uh basically grounded in the idea that companies don't necessarily have to innovate their way to uh future success

longevity and long-term growth solely by focusing on the things that they do within their own walls so if you look at

the way that large companies can participate in the ecosystem that surrounds their industry one of the

Prime opportunities there is through investment through Partnerships or through the development of new ideas and

new companies that may or may not sit within their own walls and there's

there's a breadth or a spectrum of what that could mean that could be as simple as companies I say simple it's not but

that could mean companies starting their own sort of internal Venture operations where they are actively either

soliciting from outside the company or from within the company ideas that have the opportunity to grow into a whole new

business line a whole new Revenue line a new Department within their existing structure Etc or it could mean investing

in outside startups that are already pursuing that path and what we see so

often is you know a company every company at some point starts out as a startup it starts out as a small little

thing that eventually gains traction and you know if you do really well and you're really lucky it grows into

whatever Behemoth you want to look at today and as soon as you become that incumbent the Behemoth that is the um

the sort of industry leader today you are already in the process of sort of

dying or Running Scared because you have now become the target for the companies

that are today what you once were looking to disrupt the norm of whatever

is happening in your industry and a lot of Corporations a lot of larger organizations look at that as something

to fear and they look for ways to outdo or um limit the opportunities for growth

of uh those up incoming startups and there is another way to do things that

falls into the umbrella of venture driven growth which is don't try and slow them down don't try and combat them

instead go and invest in them go and help them because at that point by the

time you have a company that is nipping at your heels and growing into something interesting instead of being uh a

disruptive force in your industry that is going to eat your lunch basically

that could become a disruptive force in your industry that your company can uh

lucratively gain from that your existing Corporation could partner with in interesting ways to leverage technology

or the customer base that you have to help them grow and if that company has skin in the game through investment in

that upand cominging startup then all of a sudden the Dynam dnamic changes dramatically you're you as the

corporation are not necessarily Running Scared but rather you're looking at ways to help that uh newcomer grow and in

many ways you have the opportunity to help them unseat you and thank them for it in the process because if you invest

carefully and early Etc then exactly you win alongside them and at some point it

becomes almost like an insurance policy against yourself so if you're the incumbent and you're trying to survive

against the disruptive newcomer and you're combating them at every step if

you fail in your effort to destroy them then you have failed you are on your way

out and they are probably on their way to becoming the new incumbent however if you have invested in them along the way

and helped them grow then God forbid it leads to your own demise you still have

a huge windfall coming out of the success of that newcomer and all of a

sudden it it really just changes everything you know one it doesn't have to mean you know the demise of of the

corporation there are plenty of ways for those organizations to work together it puts you immediately on on excuse me

immediately on a path towards uh potential acquisition of the newcomer in which case you have now just further

strengthened your own stance or again in the worst case you've made a ton of money as you've been unseated and you

know everybody sort of walks away happy yeah um what you just said now two

companies come two companies come to mind that's the case of um Adobe and figma mhm um Everybody saw it it was

just a matter of time adob didn't make that move um yes Al that move has now failed

which is also super interesting yeah yeah yeah yeah so um it's always it's always good and I

usually I usually say this um to my team that um I know we I know we're going

to make make it big but it's very important for us not to lose sight of

the reason why we started the business in the first place that is to tackle a

particular problem one and to push the frontiers of innovation so um I think um

the gospel of venture driven growth is something that I'll that I'll obviously

take to mind and I'll share with the team that's should should it be in the future whereby um we have pushed the frontier

to where we want to push it to and somebody comes along and is trying to break the boundaries past where we've put it at um

it's always it it would be nice to always try to look at what they're doing and just try to probably invest in what

they're doing um it doesn't even have to be financially just at times there there are several ways in which you can like

be part of a be part of a company and um basically secure your own future whilst

you're doing it um which is good and I would want to assume that's the reason why you started Apollo 21 so H tell me

about it why and how did you start this company Apollo 21 is sort of the

culmination of the variety of experiences that I've had throughout my career so uh as I mentioned earlier I

really kind of cut my early teeth and in Innovation consultancy and learned about

the relationships and Dynamics between uh companies Brands and their customers

through that experience that of course then led me into the world of technology and startups and Entrepreneurship and um

I I have played in that space for the last like I said 12 15 years something like that and uh basically the way that

we came about was sort of opportunistic I was serving as head of product at a at a startup that I was one of the founding

team members for out in LA and about two years into that we took on outside funding from a family office and one of

the stipulations of our funding round was that we would help some of their other portfolio companies with their

technology needs and so I found myself in kind of a weird dual role where I was

focused on our own product and company while also helping some of our our

Brethren at the uh at the other portfolio companies um explore under

understand and figure out how to utilize technology to solve some of their problems and their growth opportunities

and uh really that ended up looking like uh me leading a small team doing work

that is very similar to what we do now at Apollo 21 and in fact some of the folks that are on my team today came

from that effort and uh joined me in this one but ultimately what happened

was uh that led to some folks at the family office as well as my Founders tapping me in the shoulder after about a

year of that effort and kind of saying hey do you want to go do this you seem to enjoy it and you know we're seeing

some interesting things come from it you should go and try and ultimately that led to the creation of Apollo 21 a

little over three years ago now okay over three years ago so um what's the

most successful project that you worked on that you can remember on lately that you're like extremely proud of uh that

we have worked on at Apollo 21 specifically yes yes yes um we've had

the Good Fortune of working with some really interesting projects uh some of which were focused on the creation of

internal Technology Building out operational Technologies um for companies to streamline operations work

more efficiently Etc and um to be frank some folks look at that and kind of go oh that's kind of boring it's just

internal tools but I find it super interesting personally um I love helping companies figure out where the problem

spots are and then utilizing technology to solve them so we have done that for

uh financial services companies we've done that for remote guarding companies that was actually a really fun project

um we we worked with a company that uh basically

runs runs a remote guarding platform so think uh hundreds of properties around

the country Each of which has tens of cameras and sensors and speakers and things like that all being monitored by

like three people at any given time out of a single office somewhere and they

basically came to us and said hey you know we figured out product Market fit but we did it by duct taping together like 17 different pieces of technology

and it's a problem now like you know it's starting to fall apart at the edges because we're we're pushing it to its limits help us figure out what to do

next and so we came in and literally from you know the point of the camera on the property all the way to the moment

where an alert pops up on a screen in their Operation Center that says you know activity detected at site

17 we work through every single aspect of what their technology needed to do in

order to support their business and enable them to scale by offering a service that was unparalleled by anybody

else in the business and in doing so we were able to impact everything from how

long it took for a camera feed to load on a screen when they clicked on it to how long it took for an alert to pop up

in front of somebody when a person was detected to literally the ability to determine whether you know what is in

front of a camera is the family dog running around the backyard or is a person trying to break into a car in a

parking lot for example and so that was a really interesting project that had

just a ton of different facets around you know everything from uh device deployment to computer vision

requirements to response time measurement and uh you know the ability

to interface with law enforcement and guide them you know both onto the property and then to the direct spot on

that property where something was going on etc etc and so we had a ton of fun working on

that wow that's that sounds super smart um I I I I worked um my last place of

employment was with the technology company and they dealt pretty much with

Access Control M uh yeah and anytime because obviously I'm just I'm just the

marketing guy and the product marketing guy so my my job is just basically to

like simplify all of the scientific scientific um let's say Jons

um I try I try to make it as simple as possible for um for um our customers to understand on boarding and things like

that so it's what you just describe to me is quite familiar obviously not might not be as sophisticated as you just

described it but it's something that I'm that I'm familiar with uh so on so thank

you so much um for everyone who's listening this is um Danny naan and it's

it's literally one of the smartest people I've ever interviewed that's that's interesting so thank you that's

flattering although I'm not entirely sure that's true but the the real the reality about smart people is that they

actually don't believe that that that they're smart until they put in the room where they're meant to do wonders and I

believe you do all the time um so on a notes so what song um describes your

life right now if you're going to pick a record what was it going to be I'm

terrible at this game because music is music is not the thing that like makes me tick so okay what makes you tick a

podcast do you want to recommend podcast you want to recommend books o books I can do books I can do um what are we

interested in uh I just read a great book by a guy at a company here in the

States called high alpha Innovation which I probably shouldn't plug because they're a little bit competitive to us but it was a fantastic read and I will

do him the uh the service of recommending it um Elliot Parker the CEO of high alpha Innovation just released a

book called The Illusion of innovation which was an absolutely fantastic read that digs into everything from uh the

ideals and metrics that help guide Innovation to the history of longevity

in companies and what makes them stick around versus not so I highly recommend that one uh and then another recent

favorite of mine is or at least recent reread of mine is uh lean customer development which is all about talking

to your customers to figure out what you should make for them so all right so um for the most part

what your company does is basically um it's not something that they the kind of

solutions that you provide is not something that they can go pick up on the Shelf they can [Music]

absolutely it has to be bespoke there has to be something that they might not

be able to get from somewhere else there are just a handful of companies that get to your own kind of services and you

just tailor make the Technology based on the customer requirements and specifications is that correct uh yes in

in short yes that is absolutely correct um we often build technology from

scratch or we leverage a foundational techn platform that we have built and own internally called mission control

which I like into a box of Legos it's got certain pieces that do certain things like role-based access or user

login or data management or you know analytics dashboards whatever and given the needs of Any Given project we sort

of dump that box of Legos on the floor we pick out the right pieces and then we figure out how they need to get put back together so that they do a thing that

being said um yes most of what we do is bespoke software based on SOL

either a specific need if it is focused on internal operations or helping companies bring something new to life

that they want to put in front of their customers the only caveat that I will throw out there is of course you know

the the market for SAS products and the availability of what those products can

do is growing every single day and if there is something out there that we can leverage

without having to go and rebuild it from scratch we will gladly do that we are not in the business of forcing people to custom build

technology if custom Building Technology is not the most suitable

solution perfect and which takes me to very important question you talk about

SAS you talked about um um you guys um the company built

things where you don't force you don't need to force your proprietary technology on them um probably a

willingness to collaborate now there is a big brother in town Ai and so is what

does AI do for you um or businesses in general from um

a technological perspective from an innov an Innovative

perspective and that those are two questions and the final one is that at

the end of it all after this adoption is it going to take everything everything their way and we're just going to be

made redundant man we almost made it through an entire conversation without talking

about AI yeah go ask that yes yes I it's it was a low it was a low anging fruit I

often times don't like asking people but what you said at the very end was like

okay I just have I just have to ask it's just fair all right let's do it um yes AI is here yes it's going to

change everything it has not done so yet in my opinion although it is well on the

way and I think that you know what we tell customers often and of course we hear all the time you know we need AI

we're behind the eightball we haven't you know we haven't implemented it yet Etc and the reality is that a lot of

companies are worried about missing out but the level of impact and change that AI is going to have on things is going

to be long lived and is going to adapt both quickly but also for a long time I

think and so the reality is that a a lot of companies today do not yet need AI

full stop there are a lot of companies out there whose data is not structured

in a manner to allow them to really create interesting and useful AI implementations or models or machine

learning outputs that would um create for them I think the ideal Future Vision

that they have in their head when they say we need AI uh the other thing that we run into often is companies

that with AI and assume that in order for something to be automated it has to

be backed by AI which is wholly Incorrect and in our experience actually

simple automation based on some really careful planning and careful implementation can get

companies well down the road towards having a major impact on how they operate and it allows us the frankly the

time that we need to also then help them assess what might AI do for them in the

future is their data structured in a manner where that future is even possible for them yet or is there work

that needs to be done just in terms of cating and streamlining their data in a manner that we can use it for training

purposes for example so that we can build a model ideally that is based on something

that we know will have an impact on their business not just oh yeah of course we should go and build an AI for

something so that you guys have ai and So my overarching answer to that question is look for opportunities where

Automation and careful thought and design around software can get you 50 60

80% of the way down the line towards what you have in your head leverage the time that it takes to create that and

get it in place so that you can also at the same time build the foundations for

what might be an AI future for your company and then at the same time also start exploring the AI tools that are

out there today and they are rampantly in abundance at this point go pick up

what's that all Lots like yes yes you can't I mean you can't you know turn

around without bumping into a new AI product every single day and so the other thing that I encourage folks to do

is go test those out go play with them go learn what chat GPT does and how it works and what it can and cannot answer

for you so that when we start talking about and designing AI software that is

bespoke to your needs you can understand what we're talking about and have a much

clearer picture of what's possible as we get to the point of actually creating something all right good uh that's

that's it um ladies and gentlemen if you made it this far please remember to like um share and subscribe um what he what

he just said is that um there is there is no cause for alarm um it's it's a

very fastpaced technology the way things things are going when it comes that is

AI um but it's still a very long road and the best way for for businesses is

to one know exactly is that they want out of it to go out and test what's

available and three be prepared that's essentially what um what that and Dan just told us out so thank you thank you

um so much Danny and we just went a minute past lot of time um it's really

been a pleasure um having you on this podcast thank you so

much all right all right so ladies and gentlemen wherever you are um this is

the how I did the podcast um we just had a chat with um Danny Nathan and it was a

very good chat and um looking forward to catching you guys in the next episode

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